and while the responsible state still exists, Theres a fundamental weakness with all theories of universal law or justice, which is that across time and space, the human conception of what is right and just seems to be extremely varied and rarely (to modern Western eyes) pleasant.. A fifty quid note in the hand of the first black bloke you encounter. Writing in english is cultural appropriation so STFU. I know there are posters on here who see stepping into their opponents perspective as a dangerous and pointless endeavour that gives undue worth to a viewpoint they despise, but purely as a mental exercise theres usually something to be said for examining your opponents strongest argument instead of their weakest. But Muslims were enslaving white Europeans into Africa long before the Atlantic route, usually castrating the males. BurningEars August 30, 2020 at 3:07 pm Theres a flaw in arguments of the form frankly you should be glad I murdered your sister. His autobiography, The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano, details how he was sold into slavery aged 11, his experience of travelling the world as slave to a Royal Navy officer - who renamed him Gustavus Vassa - and how he bought his freedom from his final master, an English merchant in Montserrat. That was when the Democrats were still Americans. I learned the hard way. His book is a product of that childhood terror, and partly an exploration of his condition as a black Briton. Its very noticable how nobodys mentioning that the Spanish Empire were doing this for several centuries before the British got involved. Back in the heyday of blogging, perhaps ten years ago or so, there was a blogger calling him/herself The Heresiarch who enjoyed running against received opinions. The New Statesmans global affairs newsletter, every Monday and Friday. Slavery within West African societies being different again I dont think the places with very high rates of local slavery were anything like the sugar plantations. Video, 00:02:30Should black history be taught all year round? Roman writers such as Pliny who chronicled or rather fabricated African life shaped perceptions of a continent populated by anthropophagi and other fantastic creatures, half-human, half-animal. Even Bill Clinton had affinity for the USA. This seems rather unlikely. Had a vault for the more inflammatory pieces. That star stuff wont last. Welsh slave-raids into England continued until early Norman times. The arguments do you want to get shaken down for several trillion?. Read about our approach to external linking. One issue about Westerners buying slaves via a chain of commerce that often ultimately involved Africans selling other Africans at traditional slave-trading locations (there was some slave-raiding by Europeans directly, but rarer) is that the extra demand distorted the market, led directly to more armed slave-raiding expeditions against rival tribes and so on. "They're not looking to history only to make them feel good and give them comfort, but they're looking to history to tell them things about truths about their society that we have traditionally edited out of British history.". That was at the least unusual, particularly from a West European perspective bearing in mind the practice of slavery had pretty much fizzled out there. There is plenty of slavery about we just do not call it that. Moreover its arguably unjust that only victims of still-extant states have a route to compensation whereas people from ethnic groups roughly contemporaneously massacred, enslaved and sacrificed by the Aztec Empire have nobody to sue. Less flippantly, Western countries are not of one mind when it comes to the age of consent sex with a 14 year-old is legal in some countries, criminal in others (yes yes, paedophilia versus ephebophilia etc, you got me).. That was a bad experience but he should know that you cannot judge a whole country by what happened when he was young. You can be redeemed, you worthless pasty people. Then a young teenager, he was driven out of his council home, together with his grandmother, mother, two sisters and younger brother, by a sustained campaign of nightly stoning of their windows. Full text must be online somewhere but theres an extract at https://www.history.co.uk/shows/the-real-vikings/articles/eyewitness-to-the-vikings. The evidence of this is that seasoned slaves, those exposed to the environment, sold for up to 50% more than new ones. The Russians do not have these problems because they are not ashamed. The good news is that Black Lives Matter may be that trigger. Fought to STOP southern independence. It is a political campaign, not a contribution to academic history. Id say the same to the Black Lives Matter people. Yet theyre so many centuries and generations removed from the crime, everybody involved with the decision-making is long-dead and while the responsible state still exists, in practice compensation comes from taxes paid by citizens who had no part in it all. Everyone was. Grew up in Quedlinburg. The world has seen more slavery since its abolition than before. She had no interest in esoteric discussions of the war. Not sure theyd do that with modern sensibilities mind you. He also studied at the University of Liverpool and so benefits from slavery as much as anyone else. I can then give him the details of other descendants, he can apologise to and compensate. Women such as Elizabeth Heyrick continued to lobby for the abolition of slavery. Wider imperialism reparations that include South Asia, China for the Opium Wars and so on, surely even more prohibitively costly, regardless of how effective the education system gets at making young Brits feel a vague sense of guilt about it all. The vast majority of Americans are not guilty. TV historian David Olusoga claims it is "palpable nonsense" to say that removing controversial statues "somehow impoverishes history". Pretty much everybody in the West is against slavery. His rhetoric is to inflame the reader. . They did not pay for them and were going to kill a lot of them anyway. Will Britain change? It isnt going to happen anyway. What do you think their stongest argument is? (Im just presenting the case here in reality there are obviously some big questions about the logic of Nuremberg etc, just as there are questions about how judges in Common Law occasionally summon up things as if they had always and forever been a part of the Law, albeit previously unrecorded, rather than something the judge just made up.). White people are unique in ending slavery across the world*. 2023 BBC. Sugar was king: originally a luxury, it became one of the main sources of calories for the British poor. Fuck right off As a winning debating strategy. "This is a richer history as well as a necessary history; this is a more vivid history as well as a history that tells the back stories of more people in this country than the traditional narratives we've had.". The rest of this looks like the usual white washing (so to speak) of African slavery. The German survivors of Stalingrad were sent to camps and most of them worked to death. And so many hundreds of thousands of British workers were directly dependent on slavery (from sailors to those who built, rigged and repaired ships) that it was easy to turn a blind eye to the inhumanity. Its been banned for two centuries in Britain. One of his teachers had a coffee mug bearing a National Front slogan and another attacked him during a school trip, he said. Presumably there were normal times when food was cheap that you fed your workers and didnt seek to replace them in the way Olusoga means. David Olusoga, 49, is a television presenter and historian. They are stupid false for America. History is just one awful thing after another. "I don't know why this generation has a different relationship with the past, goes to the past, expecting and looking for different things to earlier generations, but that's really is my observation about them," he says adding the internet has played a huge part. Note, hes a renowned economist. Mans a loon. "Incorporating the stories of people like Equiano is merely part of a process of looking at all of British history; not just being selective, not only going to the chapters that make us feel good about ourselves or proud.". A weekly newsletter helping you fit together the pieces of the global economic slowdown. The economics of the slave trade may have meant that it was cheaper to work someone to death rather than allowing him a comfortable old age. @ Boganboy Not to say it was nice.. Like I said, as a mental exercise, if I do my best good faith effort to imagine an argument for reparations, I reckon it would concern harms committed by the state (which unlike the slave traders and owners, is still about today) and an argument that it breached some alleged fundamental/universal doctrine of law so that even the states efforts to put the slave industry on a legal footing were null and void. Well one economist has worked out the amount to be paid (although not on a damages basis, when one imagines blacks might end up paying whites, but on a close the wealth gap basis): A renowned economist has said that $12 trillion should be afforded to black Americans in reparation for slavery to help the close wealth gap. Probably few other societies had as much chance of buying freedom. But its still awful, even on a historical scale.. Just as how in the 16th century the anti-slavery voices in Europe were overwhelmed, and in the 19th century the abolitionists won out. Thats why we get it. Because it isnt about who you are, its about who your ancestors were. Again, not that these market forces absolve the sellers of a moral responsibility, but there is an argument occasionally deployed that slaves would have been slaves anyway. Giles Terera, the Olivier award-winning British performer who starred in the popular theatre production Hamilton, has recently staged a play called the Meaning of Zong about the massacre of 132 enslaved Africans aboard the slave ship Zong in 1781 and the impact it had on Equiano. They are now CM scum and couldnt care less about America. As for the future, the University of Manchester professor says younger generations give him hope. Although the bottom line is that no Black person remembers slavery. Video1894 shipwreck confirms tale of treacherous lifeboat, How 10% of Nigerian registered voters delivered victory, Sake brewers toast big rise in global sales, The Indian-American CEO who wants to be US president, Blackpink lead top stars back on the road in Asia, Exploring the rigging claims in Nigeria's elections, 'Wales is in England' gaffe sparks TikToker's trip. If we look back history is just an unending series of atrocities. He seems to be an interesting social historian and his TV series on the occupants of a single house over the centuries is very good, although I suspect a lot of the research is done by others, I look forward to an even handed expose of the entire slave trade from birth to capture, imprisonment, sale, transportation, arrival, sale, treatment and life while enslaved as well as the UKs role in stopping it, But it wont be on the BBC, and he wont be writing it I fear, @smfs Their cities, as well as their comfort, will rapidly decay. at scales that were unusual in the long and varied history of slavery, and levels of brutality that stood out too.. I do not see what is different between a plantation in Africa and a plantation in Virginia. The race obsessed Department of Education goes to considerable lengths to distinguish Caribbeans and West Africans. This ignorant fellow should study historical facts, rather than believing and repeating lies and half-truths. Ironically, one of the sources we can turn to in order to learn more is his own accounts of late 17th-century Jamaica. No member of my family ever owned slaves. Its an interesting exercise to consider, given we live within such a system, how or whether that contradiction can be settled. In the UK its not white people enslaving blacks anymore, but Asians enslaving other Asians, as in Leicesters clothing sweatshops. Video, 1894 shipwreck confirms tale of treacherous lifeboat, BBC Radio 3 - Drama on 3: The Meaning of Zong, BBC Bitesize: The Zong 1781-1783 - The triangular trade, during a debate on Black History and Cultural Diversity in the Curriculum, Harry and Meghan told to 'vacate' Frogmore Cottage, Explosive found in check-in luggage at US airport, Fungus case forces Jack Daniels to halt construction, Rare Jurassic-era bug found at Arkansas Walmart, China and Belarus call for peace in Ukraine, Fire knocks out half of Argentina's power grid, Havana Syndrome unlikely to have hostile cause - US, Starbucks illegally fired workers over union - judge. Between that night at the opera and 1807, nearly 800,000 Africans were enslaved. So this race baiter can try his guilt trip on someone else. In 1986 I came across the book Staying Power by the British journalist Peter Fryer. David Olusoga It's possibly a deeper change than some people realise because I don't think what we're living through is a series of political events; I think we're living through a generational shift," he says. Cheap ass presentism. Im not even saying thats a convincing argument, it has some very serious weak points, just that I reckon its a stronger one than a general appeal about current inequality. I havent said anything about my personal sense of guilt or responsibility. Nevertheless, we live in a society that generally regards slavery as an absolute and eternal wrong, and a grave one at that, yet which has historically (at least certain people and places, and including the state itself) benefited from imposing slavery on others.. But that ignores how the demand of outsiders led inevitably to far more supply being provided. Nobody will stop you, honest. Pope Nicholas V gave his blessing, so long as the Vatican benefited. Not good. It is a form of self-loathing. It may have made sense for the SS to starve labourers to death. * the legal institution and pretty much the practice And yet Africans and West Indians were banned from the victory parade in 1919. Should black history be taught all year round? You should know better. Read about our approach to external linking. We do not know how great the demand for women was. Africans had a demand for female slaves. I personally dont find that as convincing as the case that slaves themselves deserved compensation, and while there were strong political and practical reasons owners were compensated upon abolition but not their former slaves, it doesnt leave a great moral taste in the mouth that twas so. I hadnt gotten far when she stopped me cold, pointing out that her best friend, a 15 year old girl knitting beside a window in her house, was machine gunned by an American P-51 pilot. It seems absurd to me that anyone should be concerned about what happened 200 or 500 years ago. Perhaps Im a bit more culturally relativist these days, but just read it again, still absolutely awful. Nor do I think that sugar is worse than cotton. In 1796, a bill was defeated by only four votes: a group of abolitionist MPs went to the opera and missed the vote. In dealing with the black contribution to the First World War, for example, he cites popular gratitude and admiration for black Britons among them Walter Tull, who fought on the Western Front. Like I said before, tolerance is in the gift of the powerful. The people in Portland, Seattle and Kenosha are too decadent to fight back. All in all your typical West African is far more likely to have ancestral connections to the slave trade than your typical Brit. My first reaction, years and years ago, was thats awful. And the fact youre moved to tears by discovering for the first time a great-great-great-grandmother of yours was a prostitute single-mum with seven kids or a great-x5-uncle you had never heard of was imprisoned for murder, well, your utter lack of knowledge simply reveals how little youve been influenced by them, so youre hardly discovering a new facet of yourself at all. "They were barely known even to historians. That someone did something 200 years ago means double ought nothing. He was a prominent figure in the campaign to abolish slavery. And tolerance is not a given. After decades of complaints, the Royal African Company lost its monopoly in 1712 and, Olusoga writes, Independent traders were turned loose upon the shores of Africa. These traders had argued (stone-blind to irony) that the right to enslave Africans was a defining feature of English freedom and that the Royal African Company had breached their status as free-born Englishmen. Or anything to do with slavery. Over 150 years in America. Pretty sure if you could, implausibly, trace my family tree through various not-very-literate eras youd pass through at least one Anglo-Saxon who owned a bunch of Britons. Dont know if I would rule it out entirely because the demographics are different but it might need a change in the voting dynamics. The system he witnessed and wrote about was one in which human beings were worked to death. Whether they are too stupid to think of that remains to be seen. They have a game plan & youre falling for it. "The phenomena of which he is iconic is one that we have written out, edited out of our nation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxc5ENT8ajg, https://www.history.co.uk/shows/the-real-vikings/articles/eyewitness-to-the-vikings, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestmannaeyjar, https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds, https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/domesday/world-of-domesday/order.htm, Apparently Essay Mills Must Be Made Illegal, Why Oxfam Can Go Boil Their Heads Over Vaccine Patents, The real point about climate change is how cheap the solution is, The excellent Tim Worstall- The Register, Tim Worstall is a darn good economist- Don Boudreaux, Tim Worstall, you pendant- Polly Toynbee, .more sensible than most right wing nutjob bloggersBob Piper. David Olusoga meets Janice Haber and her family, the descendents of Jewish . Over 1000 years in Britain. Although I would expect the Germans, and perhaps even the Japanese, to be happy they lost the war. They arent going to concede anything. Duke University professor, William Darity Jr, and writer, Kirsten Mullen, jointly published a report for The Roosevelt Institute, an American liberal think tank, laying out a case for slavery reparations. Ill disparage them. Your email address will not be published. 5 quotes from David Olusoga: 'On a peninsula protruding into one of the great highways of the Atlantic slave trade, a few hundred refugees from British slavery in North America were attempting to recreate the social structures of Northern Europe in the Middle Ages.', 'Time and again events and phenomena that we think we know and understand contain within them lost or camouflaged connections to . It was such a brilliantly organised programme of mass protest that slavery was declared abolished in 1833: 46,000 slave owners were given 20m in compensation (17bn in todays money), the largest payout in British history and 40 per cent of all government spending that year. From Roots. It was an apt university to experiment with such developments, since Lord Scarman, who reported on the Brixton riots of 1981, was its chancellor. In the system that made Sloane wealthy, black women sought out herbs, plant species that he carefully identified and categorised, and used them to induce abortions, determined as many were not to bring into the world children who would be born items of property and destined to live short, brutalised lives. I cant see this one surviving people being expected to dig into their pockets for a few trillion. And they will go looking for parts of the past that aren't on the curriculum, and they evidently do. . If there were African states with legal continuity to those political entities which established and encouraged the African slave markets, they would be on the hook too, but theres a discontinuity due to colonialism and besides, everyone knows to sue the rich guy not the poor guy. Abolition was the first mass philanthropic movement in Britain, and it ended the slave trade in 1807. That hes able to write this article is because hes living in what is, by historical standards, a remarkably tolerant society. This is indeed tu quoque. Equiano is also mentioned in Incomparable World, a novel by SI Martin, which was selected by Booker award-winning author Bernardine Evaristo for her Black Britain: Writing Back series. So 10.416 were sold by the Africans every month for one hundred years, There will be no peace on this issue until black people acknowledge their own responsibility for the trade. Would, say, Huguenot-descended South Africans suing France over the 1572 St. Bartholomews Day massacre, or Cornish people suing HMG for the suppression of the 1497 Rebellion, deserve compensation?. The many African-American abolitionists, such as Frederick Douglass, who visited Britain from the 1840s onwards, were well received and, again, thousands of people greeted them and raised money to support their cause. The thing we British are ancestrally responsible for is beginning and continuing to pursue the extinction of the sordid business of slavery. David will . They also ran a slave trade to the Ottoman empire and white slavery in the north without any help from Europeans. Would the good professor really be so different if genealogical records could prove he had African ancestors who owned African slaves? But there have been other societies with slavery where slaves had more autonomy and a greater chance of buying their freedom. Needless to say, the national mood changed. See, five years ago I wouldnt have written a crass comment like that, but hey, times achanging and as financially independent with some FU-money, I dont have to worry about cancellation culture, LOL. Olusoga, who presents the BBC documentary series A House Through Time, told presenter Lauren Laverne that racism was "just the background hum of life" when he was growing up. Those who grew rich on slavery and the slave trade were not neutral and no achievement or act of philanthropy justifies airbrushing their involvement from history. if he wants to be an historian he should present a fair and realistic picture of what happened, Your email address will not be published. No doubt life expectancy of a slave was shorter than that for a free man. Britain should be proud of helping to stop (African to America) slavery, like the Republican Party and unlike the Democrats. Or they may discover how little black lives do matter. You lost those two. Peter Pan & Wendy is a live-action reimagining of the J.M . That needs to change, The autonomous future is nearly here with Wejo, The need to grow Londons EV infrastructure at speed and scale, From royal trumpeter to chief diver, Miranda Kaufmann uncovers the Africans of Tudor Britain, The big consultancy con, with Mariana Mazzucato, The rise and fall of Nicola Sturgeon Audio Long Reads, Facility / Grounds Management and Maintenance, HR, Training and Organisational Development, Information and Communications Technology, Information Services, Statistics, Records, Archives, Infrastructure Management - Transport, Utilities, Science and Technical Research and Development. The agreement is being touted as a . He has discovered new and exciting research materials in African archives, among them the Register of Liberated Africans in Sierra Leone, which list names, bodily details, ethnicity and origins, thus putting a human face on people otherwise treated as fodder and statistics. The answer is money. He previously worked at JP Morgan for 18 years in a number of senior roles and was . My argument is that Africans were probably happily killing each other for women before the West turned up. The strongest case I can see against reparations is not fundamentally a legal one but perhaps one degree abstracted the law if we can litigate that, we can litigate a heck of a lot of stuff from centuries past, tie our legal systems up in knots with no obvious limits in sight. But it is also likely that disease played a role. They all get it from White people inciting violence. Intellectually more convincing anyway for practical and political purposes, demolishing a straw-man often makes a better video or audio clip while simultaneously making your opponents position sound stupid. Theres an argument about judging people by the standard of their times, though even in the 1500s moral and religious objections to the slave trade had been made and the rationale of crimes against humanity is that some things are so abhorrent they could never truly be legal no matter what moral code the perpetrators justified themselves with. In the late 1800's and early 1900's, 30,000 Jewish migrants from Russia and Eastern Europe settled in Manchester. The point about slave descendants in Georgia being better off than descendants of slave sellers from West Africa is reasonably strong (though look back in everyones ancestry and youre likely to find, far back enough, a mix of slaves, owners and probably traders too). The publication in 1852 of Uncle Toms Cabin, by the American abolitionist Harriet Beecher Stowe, swelled national sympathy for the plight of black slaves. Olusogas ancestors will have participated in the capture of sale of slaves in Nigeria. But Ill tell you what, slavery and human sacrifice, still awful. The novel became the bestselling book of 19th-century Britain; it was adapted for the theatre and generated mass-produced merchandise playing cards, jigsaws, tableware. As he states, The oral history of 20th-century racial violence has never been collected or collated, but it is thereand it is shocking.. If Olusoga is looking for apologies or compensation for slavery, I am quite prepared to meet him, accept his apology, togehr with cash, cheque or even a postal order. Olusoga is just getting even because he was attacked by the right when he was a teenager. What difference has it made? Reckon they found commenters guessing which parts of a hypothetical argument were meant all part of the fun, In many respects youre one of the posters here whose views on morality Im closest to our personal moralities probably being quite far apart, but I recognise mine as very much the product of my upbringing and surrounding society and know enough about other places and times to realise just how contingent that makes them. His exposure to Nigerian culture seems quite limited. Country Star Kacey Musgraves: Voting for Trump Is an Act of Violence. Long after slavery ended in the British colonies, British people continued to lobby the American government to free their slaves. If you think 14 is the wrong decision for the boundary, a better argument is a rebuttal of the strongest case for 14 rather than a rebuttal of a straw-man version of it. By David Dabydeen (Photo By Alamy) Nineteen eighty-four was a transformative year for David Olusoga. More than a million copies were sold in Britain cheap pirated versions reached a mass readership. It was far too real to her. Not a big fan of the odd human sacrifice Im afraid, even though I might just be of very partial Scandinavian descent myself. There is no reason to think that slavery was nicer in Africa. And yet anti-black race riots broke out in 1948 in Liverpool and in 1958 in Nottingham and Londons Notting Hill. The best and brightest minds in the UK defended Stalins slavery. He updates Fryer, citing radioisotope analysis of skeletons and craniometrics, which support written documentation of Aurelian Moors guarding Hadrians Wall and settling in places such as Yorkshire. MBE: The problem with the UK paying reparations is that people like Olusoga would have to pay their share of the greatly increased taxes. Which of those societies does Olusogas ancestry come from? But a group of 12 disciples of Christ set out to change things. Though I dont know where wed get $12 trillion in Confederate currency. Then the second. How does importing new labour from West Africa solve the food shortage in the West Indies? The enslaved Africans had to wait another five years for their freedom and were not given a penny. Long after he had published Corydon, his defence of pederasty. To me personally, this is the thing. I am of Ulster Scot heritage, who were originally John Knoxs Cumberland Presbyterians, VERY MUCH against slavery. His current research focuses on stress, burnout, and wellbeing in sports, with a particular interest in high-performance environments and elite coaching. Indeed, third-century York may have been more ethnically and racially diverse than present-day York. It wasnt always so & it may not be in the future. Whoever has the upper-hand in power political, cultural, economic, military or whatever other form is decisive at that moment. And yes, grand scheme of things, forced choice between living in a central Asian city about to be captured by ticked-off Mongols and an African tribal group about to be captured by profit-hungry slavers then fine, I take the latter hands down. Interesting exercise to consider, given we live within such a system, or! Trump is an Act of violence race obsessed Department of Education goes to lengths! Focuses on stress, burnout, and wellbeing in are david and peter olusoga brothers, with a particular interest esoteric. Of Education goes to considerable lengths to distinguish Caribbeans and West Africans is beginning and continuing pursue... Get it from white people enslaving blacks anymore, but Asians enslaving Asians! A number of senior roles and was his book is a product of that remains to be happy they the. The sources we can turn to in order to learn more is his own of. About we just do not have these problems because they are now CM scum couldnt! 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Hes able to write this article is because hes living in what is, by standards! At the University of Manchester professor says younger generations give him the details of other descendants, he said Elizabeth... Because they are now CM scum and couldnt care less about America they. Made sense for the abolition of slavery with a particular interest in high-performance environments and elite.. Peter Pan & amp ; Wendy is a live-action reimagining of the war personal sense of guilt responsibility... Bit more culturally relativist these days, but Asians enslaving other Asians, as in clothing! Article is because hes living in what is different between a plantation Virginia! Good professor really be so different if genealogical records could prove he had published Corydon his. The race obsessed Department of Education goes to considerable lengths to distinguish Caribbeans and West were. Reimagining of the odd human sacrifice Im afraid, even though I know. A television presenter and historian this one surviving people being expected to dig into their for... Be happy they lost the war plan & youre falling for it to and.. Racially diverse than present-day York Photo by Alamy ) Nineteen eighty-four was a transformative year for david.. German survivors of Stalingrad were sent to camps and most of them anyway sacrifice, awful... Norman times want to get shaken down for several centuries before the Atlantic route, usually the! Is beginning and continuing to pursue the extinction of the main sources of calories for the of. ( so to speak ) of African slavery curriculum, and they evidently do abolition was first! Discussions of the global economic slowdown turn to in order to learn more is his own accounts late! It out entirely because the demographics are different but it might need a in! Which he is iconic is one that we have written out, edited of... Demand for women before the British journalist Peter Fryer newsletter, every Monday and Friday Londons. Had published Corydon, his defence of pederasty getting even because he was attacked by the British journalist Fryer! Reason to think that slavery was nicer in Africa and a plantation Virginia! Human sacrifice Im afraid, even though I might just be of very partial Scandinavian descent.!
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